266MMX slower than P70

Support and general discussion.
Post Reply
nanonite
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu 19 Jul, 2018 7:48 am

266MMX slower than P70

Post by nanonite » Mon 23 Jul, 2018 9:03 am

Hello Folks,

I gave a shot for this emulator, I have chosen Pentium 266 MMX for starter because it was an uber machine in the P1 era.

I have installed Windows 98SE latest edition.

No drivers at this point. By the way a driver pack similar to Vmware's guest tools would be a nice addition for PCem.

The first game I have installed was good old Dark Colony 16bit.

The game was lagging like hell, the video unwatchable, the menus awfully slow, then the game itself was unplayable.

I have then switched the virtual machine over to P70 and voila it started working fine.

Any explanation for this?

seth
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue 14 Mar, 2017 12:13 pm

Re: 266MMX slower than P70

Post by seth » Mon 23 Jul, 2018 9:33 am

I'm pretty sure that's because your CPU is weak and can't emulate Pentium 266 MMX at full speed.

nanonite
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu 19 Jul, 2018 7:48 am

Re: 266MMX slower than P70

Post by nanonite » Mon 23 Jul, 2018 9:42 am

I'm pretty sure that's not the case since I have:

https://www.asus.com/us/ROG-Republic-Of ... ROG-G75VW/

Core i7

Siggy12
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat 21 Jul, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: 266MMX slower than P70

Post by Siggy12 » Mon 23 Jul, 2018 9:45 am

sorry but where is 266MMX emulation !!?? as far i remember the maximum cpu settings that I can choose on standard pcem is 233 MMX !!!

Siggy12
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat 21 Jul, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: 266MMX slower than P70

Post by Siggy12 » Mon 23 Jul, 2018 9:47 am

nanonite wrote:
Mon 23 Jul, 2018 9:42 am
I'm pretty sure that's not the case since I have:

https://www.asus.com/us/ROG-Republic-Of ... ROG-G75VW/

Core i7
No unfortunately this can be the case since is a 3rd generation i7 and handle a 233 MMX (can't find 266MMX on pcem) complete emulation is really hard.

seth
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue 14 Mar, 2017 12:13 pm

Re: 266MMX slower than P70

Post by seth » Mon 23 Jul, 2018 9:52 am

nanonite wrote:
Mon 23 Jul, 2018 9:42 am
I'm pretty sure that's not the case since I have:

https://www.asus.com/us/ROG-Republic-Of ... ROG-G75VW/

Core i7
Yeah... your CPU is weak. ^^ Sorry, but you need to have one of the best CPUs to emulate Pentium 233 MMX at full speed. :(

User avatar
leilei
Posts: 696
Joined: Fri 25 Apr, 2014 4:47 pm

Re: 266MMX slower than P70

Post by leilei » Mon 23 Jul, 2018 12:15 pm

Or at least a 7-year-old intel one clocked at 4.3ghz. Laptops generally don't go near 4ghz....
Siggy12 wrote:
Mon 23 Jul, 2018 9:45 am
sorry but where is 266MMX emulation !!??
It's in there. There's also Mobile PMMX 300MHz emulation (Tillamook)
nanonite wrote:
Mon 23 Jul, 2018 9:03 am
I have chosen Pentium 266 MMX for starter because it was an uber machine in the P1 era.
A Pentium MMX at that speed would actually be more into the P2 era...

Siggy12
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat 21 Jul, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: 266MMX slower than P70

Post by Siggy12 » Mon 23 Jul, 2018 12:27 pm

leilei wrote:
Mon 23 Jul, 2018 12:15 pm
Or at least a 7-year-old intel one clocked at 4.3ghz. Laptops generally don't go near 4ghz....
Siggy12 wrote:
Mon 23 Jul, 2018 9:45 am
sorry but where is 266MMX emulation !!??
It's in there. There's also Mobile PMMX 300MHz emulation (Tillamook)
Sorry I was thinking about desktop CPU no Mobile, to be honest I'm asking why desktop CPU arrrived only to 233 MMX and mobile up to 300 MMX.

tk421
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat 18 Jun, 2016 6:57 am

Re: 266MMX slower than P70

Post by tk421 » Tue 24 Jul, 2018 6:11 am

The top speed of the Pentium I was typically 233 MMX. That would have been a good system going into 1998, and that is what I am trying to emulate myself with a new PC purchase. Ideally I would simply buy a laptop with that PCem-friendly capability, but this is hard to do today. If I bought a desktop PC to do this, I would simply buy one based on the Intel i7 8700k or 8086k, which is a 5 Ghz processor. My work prevents me from doing this today.

For a regular Pentium (non-MMX), a top speed of 200 Mhz was possible. For the Pentium II, the minimum speed was 233 Mhz. The top speed of the Pentium II was typically 450 Mhz, which would have been at the top end of the spectrum for a consumer PC purchased in 1998. The Pentium III changed this dynamic in 1999, with speeds well in excess of 500 Mhz. Normally the programs you would run with PCem do not need emulated speeds in excess of 500 Mhz.

I would certainly be impressed with the mobile Pentium MMX running at 266 Mhz or even 300 Mhz, but I am unsure if modern consumer CPUs can emulate such an advanced processor.

I tested PCem successfully on an old AMD CPU running at 2.7 Ghz (3.2 Ghz boost). PCem ran an emulated Pentium 90 without any difficulty, but a P166MMX ran only with serious sound stuttering. This seemed to be the only problem on such an old CPU, as the emulated Voodoo 2 3D graphics ran smoothly. PCem v13.1 and v14 do not work on my AMD A8 laptop, as they give a "No romset" error every time I load them outside of a VMWare virtual computer. I admit I would not be such a fan of this software if this problem existed on the other computers I tried this on, but I have been so impressed with the results on other computers that I think the software is really amazing. Eventually I will find the right PC purchase for my needs and I will be able to enjoy PCem at top performance.

User avatar
leilei
Posts: 696
Joined: Fri 25 Apr, 2014 4:47 pm

Re: 266MMX slower than P70

Post by leilei » Tue 24 Jul, 2018 9:19 pm

Siggy12 wrote:
Mon 23 Jul, 2018 12:27 pm
Sorry I was thinking about desktop CPU no Mobile, to be honest I'm asking why desktop CPU arrrived only to 233 MMX and mobile up to 300 MMX.
In 1997, Intel wanted to bring their newer P6 architecture from the professional tier (Pentium Pro, 1995) to the consumer desktop market and didn't want the clockrate numbers (233mhz-300mhz) to confuse the model lines (both P2 and PMMX having MMX doesn't help matters). Mobile Pentium II's (also 233-300mhz) weren't for until the next year.

Siggy12
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat 21 Jul, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: 266MMX slower than P70

Post by Siggy12 » Wed 25 Jul, 2018 8:33 am

leilei wrote:
Tue 24 Jul, 2018 9:19 pm
Siggy12 wrote:
Mon 23 Jul, 2018 12:27 pm
Sorry I was thinking about desktop CPU no Mobile, to be honest I'm asking why desktop CPU arrrived only to 233 MMX and mobile up to 300 MMX.
In 1997, Intel wanted to bring their newer P6 architecture from the professional tier (Pentium Pro, 1995) to the consumer desktop market and didn't want the clockrate numbers (233mhz-300mhz) to confuse the model lines (both P2 and PMMX having MMX doesn't help matters). Mobile Pentium II's (also 233-300mhz) weren't for until the next year.
?? sorry leilei but I'm talkling about those two CPU
266 Mhz MMX desktop CPU
https://ark.intel.com/products/49968/In ... 66-MHz-FSB
300 Mhz MMX desktop CPU
https://ark.intel.com/products/49969/In ... 66-MHz-FSB

I'm asking why the mobile are emulated in PCem and those two not.

User avatar
SarahWalker
Site Admin
Posts: 1726
Joined: Thu 24 Apr, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: 266MMX slower than P70

Post by SarahWalker » Wed 25 Jul, 2018 4:31 pm

Because neither chip actually shipped? Desktop Pentium MMX peaked at 233, 266 and 300 MHz chips don't appear to have ever been sold. There is a (rare) _embedded_ PMMX 266, but that appears to be the same Tilamook core as used by the Mobile chip.

Siggy12
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat 21 Jul, 2018 6:04 pm

Re: 266MMX slower than P70

Post by Siggy12 » Thu 26 Jul, 2018 7:02 am

SarahWalker wrote:
Wed 25 Jul, 2018 4:31 pm
Because neither chip actually shipped? Desktop Pentium MMX peaked at 233, 266 and 300 MHz chips don't appear to have ever been sold. There is a (rare) _embedded_ PMMX 266, but that appears to be the same Tilamook core as used by the Mobile chip.
Thank You Sarah for having clarified it.

Post Reply