Future graphics card emulation

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kekko
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by kekko »

Out of curiosity, may I humbly ask if there any news you can share, about any new feature you're working on?
Thank you and keep up the good work.
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SarahWalker
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by SarahWalker »

Go on then...
banshee.png
banshee.png (33.09 KiB) Viewed 4025 times
3D at 1600x1200 is fun.
kekko
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by kekko »

That's great news! Thanks for sharing.
Please keep us updated on further developments, when you get the chance.
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omarsis81
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by omarsis81 »

The Banshee was my first 3D card that I purchased sometime in 1999. I remember flipping through magazines as to whether buy the Diamond Fusion or the Creative one :roll:
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SarahWalker
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by SarahWalker »

I had a Creative Banshee, but that was in late 2000 when it was obsolete and it cost £10. And I had to source the drivers of an old coverdisc. And my P120 bottlenecked every game I ran on it. Those were the days...
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leilei
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by leilei »

Mine was a Eon Lilith (supposedly the earliest Banshee to market). I haven't used it in nearly two decades (late 2006 was when i've put it away for good) and do know it has driver feature limitations and weird bugs (like corrupted lightmaps in Serious Sam) and never got as much driver polish as the V3 did. (or marketing. V3 was formerly Banshee2, then the STB thing happened, and Banshee never joined the refreshed 3dfx product lineup - just V2 "1000" and variants of V3s)
altheos
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by altheos »

Banshee will be a nice addition.
May I ask if you've hooked a 2D engine to the Voodoo renderer or you did a complete overhaul ?

Personaly, I jumped from Voodoo2 to Voodoo3
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SarahWalker
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by SarahWalker »

Same 3D renderer; why reinvent the wheel?
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leilei
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by leilei »

It's also a little visually different than V1/V2.

Mainly Banshee defaults to 2x2 dither for a lot of Glide stuff in lower resolutions, and by that, you don't get to see most of the dither subtraction V1/V2 would do (on real hardware) and there's the new smaller filter so it looks a little cleaner. There's no easy way to change this with stock drivers, but there's some env vars and third-party tools (V Control) that can force it similarly to V3's 3dfx Tools.

There's also no multitexture support of course, so a couple of games (Unreal, Half-Life) should look a little brighter by not dropping to a subtraction blend for a combine path.
Xanarki
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by Xanarki »

I'm a bit late here, but I'm ecstatic to see progress on the Banshee. After I read the initial list, that was the card I was hoping for and low n behold, here it is. The Banshee was the first 3D card my family bought for Christmas '98 and so I have some fond memories with it.
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gen_angry
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by gen_angry »

Never owned any 3DFX product, even today :( I always wanted one but even today they're all pricey. Got a P100 system waiting for a Voodoo 1 to throw in.

Went from ATI EGA, Trident 8900D, I think a Cirrus Logic?, Rage 128 Ultra, 9000 Pro, 9600XT and up from there.
Xanarki
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by Xanarki »

gen_angry wrote:
Sun 04 Oct, 2020 1:09 am
Never owned any 3DFX product, even today :( I always wanted one but even today they're all pricey. Got a P100 system waiting for a Voodoo 1 to throw in.

Went from ATI EGA, Trident 8900D, I think a Cirrus Logic?, Rage 128 Ultra, 9000 Pro, 9600XT and up from there.
I'm using the original 9000 in my current '98 rig, and honestly, it is extremely compatible with most games I throw at it from the Win9x era. Not too new for those late DOS/early Win95 games, but not too old for those late Win98/early WinXP games.
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gen_angry
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by gen_angry »

Xanarki wrote:
Sun 04 Oct, 2020 3:10 am
gen_angry wrote:
Sun 04 Oct, 2020 1:09 am
Never owned any 3DFX product, even today :( I always wanted one but even today they're all pricey. Got a P100 system waiting for a Voodoo 1 to throw in.

Went from ATI EGA, Trident 8900D, I think a Cirrus Logic?, Rage 128 Ultra, 9000 Pro, 9600XT and up from there.
I'm using the original 9000 in my current '98 rig, and honestly, it is extremely compatible with most games I throw at it from the Win9x era. Not too new for those late DOS/early Win95 games, but not too old for those late Win98/early WinXP games.
Yea, those things shred. The whole 9000 series line is great for that era. It's not an MX piece of trash and doesn't seem to have that expensive GeForce Ti/Voodoo ebay tax. I just built a Northwood P4 2.0 with a AIW 9800 Pro from ebay haggling/local deals. Hard drives are a little fucky (two 80GBs, they've suffered through a lot of shit over the years, multiple PSU failures, bumps, being moved across Canada twice, and surprisingly no bad sectors yet) but it runs everything I've thrown at it that actually runs on Win98 at 1280x1024 res.

As a side note: do not defrag a nearly-full 80GB harddrive (images of all my games) with a P4 in Win98 and actually expect it to finish quickly. :( it's just passing it's 6th hour and at 51%....
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leilei
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by leilei »

The 9000 falls into the 'haha no' unlikelyness for being too fast for today's CPUs to emulate decently though (even if it's a watered down 8500 and not actually part of the nVidia-busting R300 line)

There probably isn't a lot in that era which could be reasonably emulated for performance reasons, though maybe the SiS IGPs since they can perform worse than a PCX2 and have the most interestingly bad texture filtering involving multitexture combines...
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gen_angry
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by gen_angry »

leilei wrote:
Sun 04 Oct, 2020 3:29 am
The 9000 falls into the 'haha no' unlikelyness for being too fast for today's CPUs to emulate decently though (even if it's a watered down 8500 and not actually part of the nVidia-busting R300 line)

There probably isn't a lot in that era which could be reasonably emulated for performance reasons, though maybe the SiS IGPs since they can perform worse than a PCX2 and have the most interestingly bad texture filtering involving multitexture combines...
Oh I know, I wouldn't even expect a 7000 to be a possibility for a very very long time, if ever. The complexity is just incredible at that point and just beyond past it. Just... reminiscing a bit I guess :)
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leilei
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by leilei »

I'm just attaching a picture of the SiS filter because I know it's a guilty pleasure for somebody (the multitexture is enabled in the middle section)

Maybe some fun Voodoo interpreter patches (not committed upstream for accuracy reasons) playing with other GPU's filtering could be a thing...
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sisfilt2.png
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Xanarki
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by Xanarki »

gen_angry wrote:
Sun 04 Oct, 2020 3:25 am
Xanarki wrote:
Sun 04 Oct, 2020 3:10 am
gen_angry wrote:
Sun 04 Oct, 2020 1:09 am
Never owned any 3DFX product, even today :( I always wanted one but even today they're all pricey. Got a P100 system waiting for a Voodoo 1 to throw in.

Went from ATI EGA, Trident 8900D, I think a Cirrus Logic?, Rage 128 Ultra, 9000 Pro, 9600XT and up from there.
I'm using the original 9000 in my current '98 rig, and honestly, it is extremely compatible with most games I throw at it from the Win9x era. Not too new for those late DOS/early Win95 games, but not too old for those late Win98/early WinXP games.
Yea, those things shred. The whole 9000 series line is great for that era. It's not an MX piece of trash and doesn't seem to have that expensive GeForce Ti/Voodoo ebay tax. I just built a Northwood P4 2.0 with a AIW 9800 Pro from ebay haggling/local deals. Hard drives are a little fucky (two 80GBs, they've suffered through a lot of shit over the years, multiple PSU failures, bumps, being moved across Canada twice, and surprisingly no bad sectors yet) but it runs everything I've thrown at it that actually runs on Win98 at 1280x1024 res.

As a side note: do not defrag a nearly-full 80GB harddrive (images of all my games) with a P4 in Win98 and actually expect it to finish quickly. :( it's just passing it's 6th hour and at 51%....
I've been using the same hard drive for 11 months and fingers crossed, no problems yet. I did have a problem with slight stuttering in games (the hard drive would have a weird "power save" mode in which it shuts off when not used). Someone suggested that I use HDAT to shut off the feature, and that fixed it. Apparently it uses slightly more energy when plugged in, but, doesn't reduce the life on the hard drive. I'm hoping since it isn't constantly powering down, it'll actually increase the life expectancy.

I figured the 9800 would be too "new", I might have to look into that. But I prefer the P3 CPUs as opposed to P4 and not sure how that'd match up. But yeah, there's no point in emulating such a late series. It's perfect for physical builds as is.
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gen_angry
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by gen_angry »

Xanarki wrote:
Fri 09 Oct, 2020 4:21 pm
gen_angry wrote:
Sun 04 Oct, 2020 3:25 am
Xanarki wrote:
Sun 04 Oct, 2020 3:10 am


I'm using the original 9000 in my current '98 rig, and honestly, it is extremely compatible with most games I throw at it from the Win9x era. Not too new for those late DOS/early Win95 games, but not too old for those late Win98/early WinXP games.
Yea, those things shred. The whole 9000 series line is great for that era. It's not an MX piece of trash and doesn't seem to have that expensive GeForce Ti/Voodoo ebay tax. I just built a Northwood P4 2.0 with a AIW 9800 Pro from ebay haggling/local deals. Hard drives are a little fucky (two 80GBs, they've suffered through a lot of shit over the years, multiple PSU failures, bumps, being moved across Canada twice, and surprisingly no bad sectors yet) but it runs everything I've thrown at it that actually runs on Win98 at 1280x1024 res.

As a side note: do not defrag a nearly-full 80GB harddrive (images of all my games) with a P4 in Win98 and actually expect it to finish quickly. :( it's just passing it's 6th hour and at 51%....
I've been using the same hard drive for 11 months and fingers crossed, no problems yet. I did have a problem with slight stuttering in games (the hard drive would have a weird "power save" mode in which it shuts off when not used). Someone suggested that I use HDAT to shut off the feature, and that fixed it. Apparently it uses slightly more energy when plugged in, but, doesn't reduce the life on the hard drive. I'm hoping since it isn't constantly powering down, it'll actually increase the life expectancy.

I figured the 9800 would be too "new", I might have to look into that. But I prefer the P3 CPUs as opposed to P4 and not sure how that'd match up. But yeah, there's no point in emulating such a late series. It's perfect for physical builds as is.
Yea, a 9800 Pro would be bottlenecked severely by a P-III. Even this P4 bottlenecks it pretty heavily, I've got a 2.4C (with HT) coming to replace it which should be a little bit better. Ended up dual booting 98SE and XP since many of the 2002-2005 games run better on XP and it's a way around the 137GB barrier without relying on a patch (this system doesn't like file system patches for some reason, they all make it unstable).

But na, it's not too new for a 98SE rig. It has working drivers, doesn't have that weird PCI-e to AGP bridge that always caused issues, and as long as you get a 256bit version of the card (most 256MB cards are 128bit) - it'll wreck anything that 98 can legit throw at it. Might be wonky for DOS/Win 3.1 if you've got that on there though - there is zero support for anything above like a Mach64 or thereabouts.

In any case, to get back on topic - that Banshee support looks pretty awesome. :)
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leilei
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by leilei »

On the rarely tapped software-rendered PowerVR front, WashingtonDC (Dreamcast emulator, 3-clause BSD) has something happening now. PVR2 CLX2 yes, but all early PowerVR chips have similar architecture anyway
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omarsis81
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by omarsis81 »

Hahaha very clever that Washington DC name for a DreamCast emulator :lol:
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leilei
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Re: Future graphics card emulation

Post by leilei »

Any stuff/info about the Rage XL? It's allegedly a better Rage Pro with better alpha blending...
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