Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

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RetroGIG94
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Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby RetroGIG94 » Sun 13 Nov, 2016 4:50 pm

Hello there is something since Yesterday that I was in thought of.

Since Voodoo 2 emulation is on it's way I am curious if any of these controls will work on Voodoo 2 on the PCem version, depending of which brand of control panel for the 3D accelerator.
And can different brands of control panels for Voodoo 2 work on Windows 9x PCem?


Controls
http://www.3dgw.com/Articles/voodoo2_control.htm

Brands
http://www.3dgw.com/Articles/control_panels.htm
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omarsis81
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby omarsis81 » Sun 13 Nov, 2016 5:42 pm

Most probably it will work. You will have to install the apropriate drivers, ie. the ones from Canopus, Creative, Diamond, or whatever Control Panel you like
RetroGIG94
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby RetroGIG94 » Sun 13 Nov, 2016 5:47 pm

Yeah I think I will choose Canopus.

I bet Sarahwalker and leilei are not aware of these controls on Voodoo 2 and brands of control panels.
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omarsis81
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby omarsis81 » Sun 13 Nov, 2016 6:02 pm

RetroGIG94 wrote:Yeah I think I will choose Canopus.

I bet Sarahwalker and leilei are not aware of these controls on Voodoo 2 and brands of control panels.


Of course they are well aware!
Those were the cards of the day... and I remember that using the drivers from Diamond were better than Creative
RetroGIG94
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby RetroGIG94 » Sun 13 Nov, 2016 6:15 pm

Yeah but I don't about this option, on the canopus voodoo II control panel, "Use Pure 3D as primary 3D device." I wonder if this option can be used to run Lego creator with voodoo II. I mean the game is suppose to use the primary video card if if has 3D capability. In the page of the voodoo 2 Direct 3D controls it says that "Use as Primary 3D device:

"Sets your Voodoo� as the primary Direct3D device for full-screen Direct3D applications. However, you can change this setting if you have another Direct3D device installed (like a VGA card with 3D capability).
The only time you would use this is if you wanted to play a Direct3D game using your primary display adapter and not your Voodoo� card."

The reason why I think that Canopus is the best video card because it has that function.

When the new PCem version is release make video proof on Youtube of "Lego creator" using the video card.
SarahWalker
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby SarahWalker » Sun 13 Nov, 2016 9:31 pm

The Voodoo 2 does not support rendering in a window, as required by Lego Creator, regardless of what drivers you use. The Canopus setting will not help you.

The next version of PCem will not run Lego Creator any better than the current version does. You have made practically all of your 86 posts on this forum about this stupid game, and I have frankly heard enough. The next post from you on this subject will get you banned from this forum.
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leilei
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby leilei » Tue 15 Nov, 2016 1:57 am

I've known about the Canopus and no it cannot drive the 2D core as required. The checkbox there is a HAL device switch for fussy poorly-coded D3D *fullscreen* games/applications that insist on using primary devices and would be only useful if you had a host video card with bad 3d, such as the ViRGE, Matrox Mystique, Rage series pre-128, Rendition Vwhatever, RIVA128, 3d blaster, Voodoo rush, Laguna3d, Permedia, Blade3D, i740, etc.

The only real advantage to using a vendor driver in an emulator is trying out Creative's silly 512x512 texture support hack which is slow and is only usable for a few games, and with V2's poor texture cache it will thrash quite easily in games that feature 512 textures regularly, and PCem DOES emulate the thrashing (as it should be).
RetroGIG94
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby RetroGIG94 » Tue 15 Nov, 2016 5:58 am

Then why don't you try then and see for your self.
A. Naim
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby A. Naim » Tue 15 Nov, 2016 7:49 pm

RetroGIG94 wrote:Then why don't you try then and see for your self.

It is not their job to prove your assertion.

You've not so much as posted a video or even (that I've seen) a picture showing this supposed config working, and given that cell phones are almost ubiquitous, I find it hard to believe you couldn't. And it's not just the people you're pestering about this that you're annoying.

Maybe it does run faster with your rig. But if it does, I doubt it's for the reason you think.
RetroGIG94
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby RetroGIG94 » Tue 15 Nov, 2016 9:18 pm

It's just because I don't have a real computer with a voodoo 2 card nor a emulator that has Voodoo2. Because I never tried them out yet because I didn't have these hardware with me at the time.

It's just that I never experienced using a voodoo 2 on a Windows 95.
UPerschke
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby UPerschke » Tue 15 Nov, 2016 10:14 pm

Regardless the pointless tries to run Lego Creator within PCem:

Why in first instance? There is an inoffical (but hard to find) WinXP patch and a reworked version released in 2008 to work in Win2K and above.
Either way WinXP in VMware or native execution are possible, eliminating need for Low Level Emulation in PCem or similar.
A. Naim
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby A. Naim » Tue 15 Nov, 2016 10:38 pm

RetroGIG94 wrote:It's just because I don't have a real computer with a voodoo 2 card nor a emulator that has Voodoo2. Because I never tried them out yet because I didn't have these hardware with me at the time.

It's just that I never experienced using a voodoo 2 on a Windows 95.

So you're insisting it works, despite not even having the hardware to test it?

... Think about that for a bit, and see if it makes sense to you.
Battler
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby Battler » Wed 16 Nov, 2016 12:23 am

Alright, I think both sides need to calm down.

- RetroGIG94: What these people are saying is, the game you are trying to run, uses 3D acceleration in a window, and the only piece of hardware that PCem emulates that can do that is the S3 Virge DX, which however does it badly. This means that your game will unfortunately only run very slowly on PCem until a better card is emulated. A friend of mine is working on emulating the Nvidia Riva 128 and Riva TNT, both of which have a reasonably good 3D accelerator and I am quite sure they can run it in a window too. Yes, it will take a very long time before that emulation works properly but it is worth the long wait.

- A. Naim: I don't think he has ever stated himself that LEGO Creator is supposed to work on a Voodoo 2. I think a month or two ago, when he first appeared here, someone gave him misleading information that the game did not work on the emulated Voodoo because of not enough onboard memory, hence he assumed that it would work on a Voodoo 2.
Also, it looks like me like he's accepted Leilei's statement that LEGO Creator does not work on the Voodoo 2 because the Voodoo 2's 3D acceleration only works full screen, but he saw an option in a driver that misled him to believe it would have allowed the Voodoo 2's 3D acceleration to drive a window, which is false. And I admit that when he mentioned that option, I myself thought the same way too.

And in fact, looking at this thread (this is a link), he initially tried to get it to run on the emulated S3 Virge DX but it apparently freezes, he reported the bug, and the report essentially got ignored, and omarsis81 told him try the Voodoo instead. That got him obsessed with trying to get it to run on the Voodoo. If anything, I wonder why his original bug report went ignored, it does seem to me like it's a legitimate report. Though, it might have been a dynamic recompiler bug, so I recommend him to try it on the S3 Virge DX again in hardware mode on the latest build of PCem, maybe it works now.

In the end, everyone here needs to remember that the person is probably someone who is likely just very fond of the game and probably not a native English speaker. While I agree he's oddly persistent about his game, in the end, he means nothing bad. In the end, an annoying person of today could be a valuable contributor of tomorrow, you never know how things can turn out.
RetroGIG94
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby RetroGIG94 » Wed 16 Nov, 2016 12:46 am

To Battler.
When I assumed that Lego Creator works on a voodoo2 there was some on the information I found on wikipiedia that says that it has support for game development tools including Gemini OpenGVS, Multigen, GameGen, SGI Open GL, Glide, Direct 3D, Mini GL and Autodesk 3D Studio under DOD, Win 32 and IRIX.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voodoo2

And I looked at the back of my the CD case of Lego Creator it says it requires and 800x600 Direct3D compatible card.

I can't tell the difference between the words "Support" and "compatible" after the word "Direct3D."

I mean if I see something new on a PCem on the current version that is like finished whether from a screen shot I see I would like to test it out and see what the real outcomes on these improvements on how games run well.
Battler
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby Battler » Wed 16 Nov, 2016 8:20 pm

- RetroGIG94: The game requires a card that can do Direct3D in a window. The Voodoo and Voodoo 2 can't, but I think the Virge DX, Riva 128, and Riva TNT can... but you reported a freeze on the Virge DX, and the Riva 128 and Riva TNT emulations are still heavily WIP.
RetroGIG94
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby RetroGIG94 » Wed 16 Nov, 2016 11:06 pm

Battler: Yeah I think you said that there might be a bug in the dynamic recompiler when using that card makes the game freeze but the mouse still moves. So it might take a year for the next release for these cards to be emulated in PCem. I bet when the next PCem is released I bet the S3 Virge/DX issue will be resolved.

And if the game was meant to work on a voodoo 2 then this trick can work.
https://www.opengl.org/discussion_board ... 2-possible

By copying the "3dfxVGL.dll" file and renaming it to "OpenGL32.dll" and putting it to the same directory as the "Creator.exe".
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leilei
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby leilei » Thu 17 Nov, 2016 1:55 am

That "trick" won't work. It won't do anything at all. It won't rewire the entire V2 card into behaving as a host card, and I don't have to "try it out for my self" because I know for a fact that it won't work.


The only time that trick would work is in a parallel alternate universe where Microsoft actually went fully with OpenGL and had not developed Direct3D at all in the first place and if 3dfx made a primary video card during the early W95 timeframe.
RetroGIG94
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby RetroGIG94 » Thu 17 Nov, 2016 2:54 am

Why don't I be a tester and test any 3D hardware you work on emulating on PCem and if it's finished I'll test it out to see if it needs work. I mean I want to be the tester for any updates of 3D emulation you are working on for next PCem build. And you and I will never know what will happen unless we try it out. I mean you never played that game before on this emulator Right? You know for a fact that it won't work on Voodoo and Voodoo 2. But before taking it for a fact, we just got to try it first and see.

I would like to use my Direct3D games I have as my guinea pig for any updates you make for the 3D hardware you are emulating.
Last edited by RetroGIG94 on Thu 17 Nov, 2016 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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leilei
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby leilei » Thu 17 Nov, 2016 2:56 am

I only test what I know that works on the real Pentium+W9X+V1/v2 configuration. It's much better than pounding sand for something that never could and wastes a lot less time.
RetroGIG94
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby RetroGIG94 » Thu 17 Nov, 2016 3:03 am

To Leilei: No I mean I want to be the game tester of what 3D game runs well on any new 3D hardware emulation added into PCem and tinker of what settings and configuration of what brands of control panels offer for those drivers and of what Sarahwalker is working on and has already finished and adding it into the emulator before the next build release.
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resle
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby resle » Thu 17 Nov, 2016 7:03 am

I think someone should start another fork of pcem: pcem-legocreator.
RetroGIG94
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby RetroGIG94 » Thu 17 Nov, 2016 5:12 pm

Thanks for the advice.
SarahWalker
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby SarahWalker » Thu 17 Nov, 2016 6:11 pm

Sorry, I've had enough.
WhiteMagicRaven
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Re: Can any of these controls work on Voodoo 2.

Postby WhiteMagicRaven » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 3:30 pm

Sorry if i choose wrong thread, but feels it apply here?
I have question Pyl tuns on Voodoo 2? can't get it work. Sorry.

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