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[Request] Ubuntu ppa / linux binaries

Posted: Tue 11 Apr, 2017 8:36 am
by TheMechanist
Hi all,

to push attention for this excellent emulator I guess it would be helpful, if there were builds for linux available. Many people using linux like me are not used to compile sources from scratch and avoid projects without ready-to-use builds ..

To have a ppa (https://launchpad.net/) for ubuntu based distros or deb packages for debian based distros would be a great step for a bigger user base ..

The building process using launchpad seems to be automated

https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/publish ... -apps/ppa/

Greetz

TheMechanist

Re: [Request] Ubuntu ppa / linux binaries

Posted: Tue 11 Apr, 2017 4:22 pm
by rliegh
TheMechanist wrote: Many people using linux like me are not used to compile sources from scratch and avoid projects without ready-to-use builds ..
>being a linux user
>being afraid to ./configure&&make&&make install

Linux has come a long, long way ...in the wrong direction! :o

Re: [Request] Ubuntu ppa / linux binaries

Posted: Tue 11 Apr, 2017 7:30 pm
by TheMechanist

Re: [Request] Ubuntu ppa / linux binaries

Posted: Tue 11 Apr, 2017 11:54 pm
by A. Naim
For me, the "./configure, make, make install" isn't a problem; it's the 2-4 other libraries it wants me to install first, and sometimes those libraries want other libraries...

And PCem runs just fine in Windows on VMWare.

Re: [Request] Ubuntu ppa / linux binaries

Posted: Wed 12 Apr, 2017 12:23 am
by AmatCoder
PCem is not ready for packaging because it searches for bios and other files in its own path (Windows way).

I.e. if packaged, PCem executable would be in /usr/bin and this directory is not writable by other than root.

Re: [Request] Ubuntu ppa / linux binaries

Posted: Wed 12 Apr, 2017 9:03 am
by TheMechanist
AmatCoder wrote:PCem is not ready for packaging because it searches for bios and other files in its own path (Windows way).

I.e. if packaged, PCem executable would be in /usr/bin and this directory is not writable by other than root.
hm, just a simple (cmd line) config option for include bios pathes, shouldn't be that much work to add ..
A. Naim wrote:For me, the "./configure, make, make install" isn't a problem; it's the 2-4 other libraries it wants me to install first, and sometimes those libraries want other libraries...
That's the point, not only for PCem but for a lot of stuff ! Just check how often even packages in launchpad failed to build for special distributions ..

Re: [Request] Ubuntu ppa / linux binaries

Posted: Thu 13 Apr, 2017 8:04 am
by rliegh
Ah, and here I thought you were serious. Never mind -carry on.

@A. Naim: As a rule, most projects (eg Qemu) keep a list of libraries (and better ones even suggest an apt-get line) that are required. When that fails, using something like pkgsrc or one of the Linux system (like arch or gentoo) to build an earlier version of the program will usually pull in the dependencies you're looking for. At least it's usually worked for me. Anything that doesn't work for usually ends up being abandoned and (therefor) unsupported (eg tme).

When it comes to the level of computing (emulation, anything involving operating systems or hardware configuration) that we're doing, reading documentation (to find out what libraries are needed, for example), asking proper questions and general problem solving aren't skills that are unreasonable to expect.

Re: [Request] Ubuntu ppa / linux binaries

Posted: Thu 13 Apr, 2017 4:23 pm
by TheMechanist
rliegh wrote: Ah, and here I thought you were serious. Never mind -carry on.
Sorry, pal, but saying, that Linux made it's way in a wrong direction, 'cause there are people, that don't want to or even can't build packages themselves, is not serious and a typical troll post. If there were only power users linux would have never come that far, or do you think, billions are invested in some nerds that like to build a linux kernel at home ? Without typical users - like me - and millions of man-hours to kick linux to an enduser level, linux would rank at the level of Haiku OS, MenuetOS or Minix ..
rliegh wrote: When it comes to the level of computing (emulation, anything involving operating systems or hardware configuration) that we're doing, reading documentation (to find out what libraries are needed, for example), asking proper questions and general problem solving aren't skills that are unreasonable to expect.
The same level of arrogance - not everybody who wants to use computer emulation is a computer expert in building and designing software. Lots of people use that kind of software for different purposes, e.g. using abandonware, gaming, fun .. and a lot of emulators out there come ready-to-use.

I'm a developer too, but I avoid package building, I want to concentrate on my job - developing my own software. Every minute I have to "read documentation and ask proper questions" is a missed minute for my projects. And as a developer I have the goal, that a lot of people find my software useful - and use it ! So providing prebuild packages is simply in self interest of every developer.

I think that PCem is a great peace of software - the more users, the more developers will join, the better the result will be ...

But if you're that overlord, setting up a ppa shouldn't be too much of a hassle for you ;)

Re: [Request] Ubuntu ppa / linux binaries

Posted: Thu 13 Apr, 2017 6:44 pm
by rliegh
TheMechanist wrote: Sorry, pal, but saying, that Linux made it's way in a wrong direction, 'cause there are people, that don't want to or even can't build packages themselves, is not serious and a typical troll post.
Only if you're the kind of person who conflates disagreement with trolling, as you appear to be.

All I can say is that a developer would know to use enterprise tools for enterprise projects and to not demand/expect that level of support when it comes to what is a clearly hobbiest project. For enterprise/developer-level emulation there's already xen, qemu and virtualbox as well as others I'm sure I'm forgetting...

I can keep trading barbs all day, but that doesn't do the project a heck of a lot of good. Just lay off the accusations of trolling just because you don't like someone's opinion, k?

k

Re: [Request] Ubuntu ppa / linux binaries

Posted: Thu 13 Apr, 2017 6:59 pm
by TheMechanist
rliegh wrote: Only if you're the kind of person who conflates disagreement with trolling, as you appear to be.

All I can say is that a developer would know to use enterprise tools for enterprise projects and to not demand/expect that level of support when it comes to what is a clearly hobbiest project. For enterprise/developer-level emulation there's already xen, qemu and virtualbox as well as others I'm sure I'm forgetting...

I can keep trading barbs all day, but that doesn't do the project a heck of a lot of good. Just lay off the accusations of trolling just because you don't like someone's opinion, k?

k
Don't see your point .. read the definition of trolling and you will realize, that your "linux post" is exactly that - telling an "opinion" that has simply nothing to do with the thread.

I'm not asking as a "enterprise developer" for "enterprise support" ... please read posts carefully before you answer !

So, I repeat it for the record: I use PCem for fun and suggested to create binary builds for linux, so other people can use PCem for fun too, even without knowledge of building from source

.. not more .. and no, I have no problem with opinions - but with your special attitude, that linux should be reserved for cracks like you wanna be ... but my mistake, I fed the troll ..

Re: [Request] Ubuntu ppa / linux binaries

Posted: Thu 13 Apr, 2017 7:53 pm
by SarahWalker
To nip this argument in the bud...

Yes, I'm sure many Linux users would like binaries to be available. However, I feel the Linux port is still sufficiently immature that a source-only distribution is still appropriate. If you're not comfortable with building from source, you're unlikely to be comfortable using Linux PCem in it's current state.

Re: [Request] Ubuntu ppa / linux binaries

Posted: Thu 23 Feb, 2023 7:15 pm
by mattlach
rliegh wrote: Tue 11 Apr, 2017 4:22 pm
TheMechanist wrote: Many people using linux like me are not used to compile sources from scratch and avoid projects without ready-to-use builds ..
>being a linux user
>being afraid to ./configure&&make&&make install

Linux has come a long, long way ...in the wrong direction! :o
I realize this is an ancient thread, but I still couldn't not reply to this.

Yes, we can compile our own and run install scripts, but this is terrible practice as an end user.

In general best practice is to never install anything that is not in either the distributions own repository, or at the very least a PPA that has been vetted to be trustworthy. If you do, you wind up with orphaned packages that are not updated with the systems main package manager and kept up to date. This can result in outdated , vulnerable packages, and a whole host of other problems.

This is the same reason Snaps/Flatpak/Appimage are so dangerous and need to die a horrible horrible death. (that, and the fact that they result in awful bloat.)

One of the biggest advantages of running Linux is that everything, all system packages and all installed software can be managed in a single system-wide package manager that keeps everything up to date. it is very poor practice to circumvent it.

I mean, sure, if you are a developer and need to build and test what you are working on, sure, make and install, but for everyone else stick to your main package manager and repositories which are updated with the latest patches.

It's not the 90's anymore. Individual users should not be compiling kernels or building software themselves anymore.

And that's where I am. If I can't get a maintained .deb package in a confirmed safe repository, I'm just not going to use the software. Yes, I CAN do it. I was there 3000 years ago. I remember how to use GCC, but I refuse to do it on principle. If there isn't a deb in a maintained trusted repository, I'll just do without.

Re: [Request] Ubuntu ppa / linux binaries

Posted: Fri 24 Feb, 2023 1:08 am
by leilei
mattlach wrote: Thu 23 Feb, 2023 7:15 pm One of the biggest advantages of running Linux is that everything, all system packages and all installed software can be managed in a single system-wide package manager that keeps everything up to date. it is very poor practice to circumvent it.
Downstream has opportunities to make unsupported changes and could skew support and compatiblity for whatever reason. Most often in the case of emulators, dynamic recompilers get skewered or removed for security concerns. A PCem downstream could lack Cyrix6x86, M II, K6, K6/2, K6/III, Via C3, Pentium, Pentium MMX, Pentium Pro, Pentium II, and Celeron emulation.

and of course, if your OS is out of the support cycle, you're not getting those newer available versions so easily automagically anymore, and there's been some strong reasons to not update for some *cough*wayland*cough*

and finally they're often seen as an authority (especially given what i'm quoting here). I can't be allowed to have Seam... "Iceape" anymore for a web browser because a maintainer lost interest in 2012, and it's a "very poor practice" if I don't use a Chrome or a chrome-like browser now, apparently. I thought one was "free to use" free software.....



Also PCem isn't that hard to compile for an end-user. It's not a web browser with a hell's load of library dependencies for every gratuitous standard Google pushes. Less typing could be had in that terminal than that post to have it up and running. There'll be more time spent hunting the required roms down, correcting their casing, and setting up the guest OS than building.