NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

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startmenu
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NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby startmenu » Fri 15 May, 2015 11:41 am

This bug appears after sp6a installed. I don't know whether it happens on sp3 or not because I installed sp6a directly.
Click the logon button, waiting two minutes, only to see an error box.
spec:
Award 430VX
Winchip 240/Pentium/Pentium MMX
RAM 128MB

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SarahWalker
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby SarahWalker » Fri 15 May, 2015 4:50 pm

Is the netlogon service running? This seems more likely to be an NT configuration issue rather than a PCem bug.
startmenu
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby startmenu » Sat 16 May, 2015 9:41 am

Well, I found that NT4 SP3 was the last service pack working on PCem. As soon as SP4 or later installed, this problem emerged... I've tried both English and Simp. Chinese versions. And this problem cannot be reproduced on other VMs(VMware, VPC2007 and VBox as far as I tried).
win2kgamer
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby win2kgamer » Sat 16 May, 2015 4:56 pm

SP4 introduced NTLMv2 authentication and some major changes to the cryptography and authentication code in NT 4. I have tested NT4 SP4 with the Intel 486DX4/100 and it is broken on that CPU as well.
rliegh
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby rliegh » Fri 26 Aug, 2016 3:18 am

For anyone wondering, this is still a problem on v11. I was able to run nt 4 on the Award SiS 496/497, 486/DX266, until I applied sp6. :?
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ppgrainbow
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby ppgrainbow » Fri 26 Aug, 2016 7:29 am

Has anyone tested Windows NT 4.0 with Service Pack 6a on a real computer with a Intel or AMD 486DX4 processor?

I'm wondering if the NTLMv2 authentication and the major changes to the cryptography and authentication code broke NT4 functionality when attempting to run it under PCem.

And since PCem has no support for networking at this time, I don't know if the NetLogon service works properly without it or not.
rliegh
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby rliegh » Fri 26 Aug, 2016 6:17 pm

ppgrainbow wrote:Has anyone tested Windows NT 4.0 with Service Pack 6a on a real computer with a Intel or AMD 486DX4 processor?

I'm wondering if the NTLMv2 authentication and the major changes to the cryptography and authentication code broke NT4 functionality when attempting to run it under PCem.

And since PCem has no support for networking at this time, I don't know if the NetLogon service works properly without it or not.

Unfortunately, I don't have a real 486 to test it on.
I tried it on a vb machine with no network adapter, and on a win32 qemu machine (-cpu 486) with no adapter; in both it was able to boot sp6.
Of course, not having an adapter is not the same thing as having no support for networking.
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ppgrainbow
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby ppgrainbow » Fri 26 Aug, 2016 6:22 pm

rliegh wrote:
ppgrainbow wrote:Has anyone tested Windows NT 4.0 with Service Pack 6a on a real computer with a Intel or AMD 486DX4 processor?

I'm wondering if the NTLMv2 authentication and the major changes to the cryptography and authentication code broke NT4 functionality when attempting to run it under PCem.

And since PCem has no support for networking at this time, I don't know if the NetLogon service works properly without it or not.

Unfortunately, I don't have a real 486 to test it on.
I tried it on a vb machine with no network adapter, and on a win32 qemu machine (-cpu 486) with no adapter; in both it was able to boot sp6.
Of course, not having an adapter is not the same thing as having no support for networking.

As far as I know, there could be a bug in the PCem code that causes Windows NT 4.0 to fail to login once the OS has been updated to Service Pack 6a.
rliegh
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby rliegh » Fri 26 Aug, 2016 10:45 pm

ppgrainbow wrote:
rliegh wrote:
ppgrainbow wrote:Has anyone tested Windows NT 4.0 with Service Pack 6a on a real computer with a Intel or AMD 486DX4 processor?

I'm wondering if the NTLMv2 authentication and the major changes to the cryptography and authentication code broke NT4 functionality when attempting to run it under PCem.

And since PCem has no support for networking at this time, I don't know if the NetLogon service works properly without it or not.

Unfortunately, I don't have a real 486 to test it on.
I tried it on a vb machine with no network adapter, and on a win32 qemu machine (-cpu 486) with no adapter; in both it was able to boot sp6.
Of course, not having an adapter is not the same thing as having no support for networking.

As far as I know, there could be a bug in the PCem code that causes Windows NT 4.0 to fail to login once the OS has been updated to Service Pack 6a.

It could be, I can't program so I have no way to know.

I tested neozeed's ne2000/v11 from this post in the networking thread. NT saw the adapter, but after installing sp6 it still complained about the netlogin service not running. I didn't bump it down to a 486, I used his defaults but bumped the cpu down to a 133mhz pentium.

My host computer has a i5 2400S cpu and 12 gigs of ram, windows 10/64 bit.
rliegh
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby rliegh » Fri 26 Aug, 2016 11:03 pm

I'm guessing NT works without sp6, haven't done a lot with it in all honesty. NT isn't the main thing I want to use pcem for, honestly -I played with it more as a test to see what I can do with my ancient deskopt more than anything else.
Battler
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby Battler » Sat 27 Aug, 2016 12:44 pm

What happens is, the Service Pack 6 installer, just like any other installer, seems to fail copying files properly on NT 4 in PCem. The reasons for that are currently unknown.
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ppgrainbow
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby ppgrainbow » Sun 28 Aug, 2016 2:30 am

Battler wrote:What happens is, the Service Pack 6 installer, just like any other installer, seems to fail copying files properly on NT 4 in PCem. The reasons for that are currently unknown.

Do you have any idea which files that the Service Pack 6a installer that Windows NT4 fails to copy and register on startup?
Battler
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby Battler » Tue 30 Aug, 2016 4:35 am

It fails to copy most of the files. It's probably a CPU emulation issue that causes the code to copy files to go haywire.
jznomoney
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby jznomoney » Thu 09 Nov, 2017 2:37 pm

Any update on this issue? It is still present with current code.
jznomoney
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby jznomoney » Thu 09 Nov, 2017 8:26 pm

I made a slipstream nt4.0 sp6 and it fails to work. It works fine on Virtualbox.
BoisterousSleet75
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby BoisterousSleet75 » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 1:05 am

I hope if Someone can made an Patch that fixes NT4 Logon problem.
aka "bsleet75"
JosepMa
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby JosepMa » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 10:42 pm

I can only confirm that there seems to be some type of problem.
In my case I have an original Windows NT 4 Workstation (bought in 1997 which came with Windows 95 too. I never used any of them, because they sent me an Italian version instead of Spanish).

I tried installing it in PCem and works, but as soon as SP6 is installed, the reported problem appears. (It was difficult to find SP6 in italian, but I finally found a good link)

Since I made a backup of the image, i tried reinstalling the SP several times.
First time I think it gave me the same error about the netlogon service, and then I tried copying the file to C: and installing from there, and currently it is telling me that the network access service is not started ("accesso di rette" in italian).
If I try to start that service before installing SP6, it fails and tells that it is not required if not connected to a Windows domain.
Also, I tried installing it with PMMX 166, and with Winchip 133 without dynamic recompiler. No difference (or maybe, the difference is the one i just mentioned)

Nothing appears in the pcem log in order to know what happens, and nothing special appears in the failed system log, except some warnings about scsi driver not updated and missing messages (i booted with both disks mounted so I could access the failed system files). So... what Battler said one year ago might be correct, but... why?

And I can also confirm that installing it on VirtualBox works and the network access service remains stopped. (strangely, the computer stops appearing in the networked devices) So, something happens, but I can't really tell what.

As for the OS itself, we were using Windows NT 4 Server with SP6 applied on a Pentium MMX 200MHz with 64MB RAM in a family company we had around year 2000.
Edit: The CD says: "Contains code for the execution under 486, pentium, MIPS, R4x00, Alpha, PowerPC, Pentium PRO compatible with Windows NT"
jznomoney
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby jznomoney » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 11:36 pm

not that this is 86box but it installs fine under 86box.
SarahWalker
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby SarahWalker » Sun 12 Nov, 2017 12:54 pm

Interestingly you can work around this by using SCSI - with the Adaptec AHA-1542 (and rev 930 which fixes a bug) SP6a seems to work okay. Still looking in to why it doesn't work with IDE.
jznomoney
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby jznomoney » Mon 13 Nov, 2017 8:12 pm

Thanks that works for now. Only bug I can find is ejecting cd images from a cd drive connected to a scsi controller does not work. I have to reboot the pc every time I change a cd image. Is there a way to have an ide cd rom drive when selecting a scsi controller?
SarahWalker
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Re: NT4 could not logon after SP6a installed

Postby SarahWalker » Mon 13 Nov, 2017 9:58 pm

No. But you could use rev 931, which fixes SP6a on IDE.

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