PCem v17 running slow/lagging

[Slo2020]

I have AMD Ryzen 3700X and anything above Pentium II 233 running slow (sound lag). Intel Celeron 533 is so laggy. Any solution?

[SarahWalker]

No, that's expected. The fastest CPUs are there for completionists at the moment, they aren't really usable on current hardware.

[Slo2020]

I tried Windows XP for test and it running very slow (sound lagging so much - startup sound, click in explorer repeat 2x). I think in Windows 2000 too. For me Windows 95 works normally with Pentium II 233.

[leilei]

Sounds like hardware detection+installation. XP will take a while with that (especially after you swap whole boards)

[Slo2020]

In Windows 2000 it's the same. Sound is so laggy.

[leilei]

Give it time to find the hardware.

[Slo2020]

Voodoo 3 is so slow. Around 3000 3D score in 3DMark 99 with Pentium II. This score is very low for Voodoo 3. It's not even faster then Voodoo 1 in games.

[leilei]

Around 3000 3D score in 3DMark 99 with Pentium II. This score is very low for Voodoo 3.

No, that score sounds about right.

[FrankyMcBobson]

I have AMD Ryzen 3700X and anything above Pentium II 233 running slow (sound lag). Intel Celeron 533 is so laggy. Any solution?

You're underestimating how demanding it is to emulate these CPUs in PCEM. A 3700X just won't cut it. Even the most powerful consumer CPU on the market right now won't cut it.

The CPU that's capable of emulating an Intel Celeron 533 at full speed in PCEM won't exist for quite a few years probably.

[A. Naim]

Try turning your emulated CPUs internal cache off in the emulated BIOS; that seemed to help with running a faster emulated CPU on my machine.

[leilei]

Turning off cache doesn't make performance miracles. Here's a P2 233

caches.jpg (28.65 KiB) Viewed 14205 times

[A. Naim]

Turning off cache doesn't make performance miracles. Here's a P2 233
caches.jpg

So so far, based on information around the forum, turning off the CPU's internal cache has sped up Daggerfall and Civ 2, but slowed down Quake 3.

Neither Daggerfall nor Civ 2 use the Voodoo/3D graphics card (Daggerfall renders entirely in software). That could be the difference?

[Slo2020]

How to turn off CPU internal cache?

I tested Voodoo 2 SLI, Voodoo 3 2000 and Voodoo 3 3000 on Pentium II 233 and all have the same score in 3DMark.

[A. Naim]

How to turn off CPU internal cache?

If it's available, it's an option in your emulated BIOS.

[CryptidWorks]

I have a 3600X and can barely squeeze by a Pentium II 233 with a Voodoo 3 3000 in 98SE so your performance sounds about right.

You're going to need a monster of a CPU like a 5Ghz+ overclocked i9 to attempt the really high-end stuff because it's really there for futureproofing and not realistically usable on current hardware. PCEM is like the Crysis of emulation software in that regard.

[TheOligopolist]

I don't know what options are available for Ryzen machines, but on my Xeon machine, turning off hyper threading and disabling the clock down feature (so the cpu is running at full clock constantly) improved performance noticeably.

[A. Naim]

I don't know what options are available for Ryzen machines, but on my Xeon machine, turning off hyper threading and disabling the clock down feature (so the cpu is running at full clock constantly) improved performance noticeably.

Interesting. What CPU(s) could you run with hyper-threading and clock-down off, versus hyper-threading and clock-down on?

[TheOligopolist]

I don't know what options are available for Ryzen machines, but on my Xeon machine, turning off hyper threading and disabling the clock down feature (so the cpu is running at full clock constantly) improved performance noticeably.

Interesting. What CPU(s) could you run with hyper-threading and clock-down off, versus hyper-threading and clock-down on?

Game dependent of course, but emulating a Pentium II 233 Mhz and Voodoo 3 I can get solid full speed in some games (Viper Racing and Quake 2) vs it sitting at around 80ish percent of full speed.
My system is older and my E5-1650 v2 isn't quite up to the task, but those tweaks do give it enough of a push to get it working at full speed with OpenGL games at least.

[tk421]

I have not noticed any of these issues with the P2 233 or the Voodoo 3. Even the Voodoo 3 3000 runs really well on my PC. I have some occasional graphical problems with the Voodoo 3, but nothing like what I read in this topic.

My early P2 450 tests with Jedi Knight last month revealed very promising results in-game. As for the in-game menus, it was a different story but that was normal given what I was testing was way ahead of the emulation game until just recently.

I found that results even in v17 depend heavily on which program is being run. Jedi Knight may work great on a P2 350, but a month ago Jedi Outcast brought performance down to about 55%. On a P2 450 Jedi Academy worked but performance was down to 45-50%.

My tests last month showed that the P2 300 and below worked very well.

PCem v17 is a major improvement for any emulation or virtualization task. v17 changes the game by adding powerful functionality that does not require the purchase of the latest CPU.

[CaptBlackwood]

Just out of curiosity. Would the generation of the CPU have anything to do with any lag issues. When Running windows 3.11/dos 6.22 some times It dips to around 60-70% and stays there.

Got an intel Core i7 2600K. I'm wondering if a newer one will have any substancial effect, since the emulation is mainly CPU Based.

[tk421]

About 1-2 years ago, I tested PCem on an 8th generation Intel core i7 laptop. Performance was better than what many people reported with older PCs in spite of the fact that they were running 6th generation core i7 machines with decent 4-4.2 Ghz speeds. The 8th gen laptops I tested were not fancy alienware PCs, failed to reach 4.0 Ghz and still performed better at many tasks than what people with the older PCs have reported here.

I am currently using a Core i7 9750h Lenovo gaming laptop. I could run most games fine on a Pentium MMX emulated machine. Any lag or sound stuttering was typically limited to the in-game menus or at worst in-game video cutscenes, not actual in-game performance. PCem v17 is so good that I can run the P2 233 without any lag and without having to keep my laptop plugged in. Even the P2 300 runs just fine. Any lag or sound stuttering is a rare occurrence now.

It is worth mentioning that I moved several programs from my emulated Pentium MMX machines to the emulated Pentium 2 + Voodoo 3 3000. Performance is simply better in PCem v17.

I have even noticed that some programs run better on the emulated P2 233 than was possible with a real P2 350. This is a huge advantage for PCem v17 because it means we no longer need the most expensive CPU on the market just to get good performance in PCem.

The one thing v17 seems to get wrong is that the P2 350 is read as a P2 333 on boot.

Traditionally Intel CPUs have seen much better performance than AMD CPUs, but I do not know if the Ryzen CPU ever changed that. I am just glad I can run pretty much all of my Win98 games without performance issues. NHL 2000 is sadly the one exception. I noticed some graphical issues with one other program when using the Voodoo 3, but that issue is much easier to work around. The Voodoo 3 is a vast improvement over previous emulated graphics cards.

As mentioned previously, the game or program you are running in PCem is a big factor in whether you have these lag issues or sound stuttering.

I hope this information helps.

Best,

tk421

[CaptBlackwood]

tk421, that information is very helpful and does provide me with some insight as to what I can expect to see when I complete pc upgrade after taxes are processed this year. I know across the board, things will improve. But I'm not expecting Perfection.

PCem is one heck of an emulator to set stuff up on.

[Slo2020]

I enabled PBO on my AMD Ryzen and now i can run 266 MHz CPU. Which one is better in PCem, Pentium II 266 or AMD K6-2 266?

[leilei]

The AMD K6-2 has 3Dnow! extensions and 3dfx Voodoo2 and Voodoo3 drivers after 1999 can take advantage of them for performance gains (which can lead to heavier emulation). The achilles' heel is the VIA MVP3 chipset on the actual boards (historically, they'd skew agp compatibility towards 3dfx cards as they weren't designed as true agp cards, however PCem currently does not emulate AGP to make that mean anything right now)