Recommendation of laptops

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10021k
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Joined: Sun 22 May, 2022 2:41 am

Recommendation of laptops

Post by 10021k »

Hello, I been wanting to get into using PCEM with using windows 98. I been shopping for a laptop and my budget kinda is tight. I was wondering if this model of laptop MSI GF63 Thin 10SCXR-222, would be able to handle PCEM with no stutters and to what limit of CPU it can emulate . It comes with a I5 10300h and a 1650 GPU. The games i play are mostly Doom, jazz jack rabbit 2, humongous entertainment games, Microsoft golf 98, Quake, age of empires, and etc. Thank you for reading my post I really appreciate it :D
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unreal9010
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Re: Recommendation of laptops

Post by unreal9010 »

I5 10300h should be able to handle Pentium 200 without stutter, possibly even Pentium II 233. Of course none of this is to be taken 100% for granted. The best would be to test and try. However, given that my old processor (i7 6700) with a Passmark ST rating of 2,300 was able to handle Pentium 166 without issues, I would assume that the sweet spot for i5 10300H (2,600) would be Pentium 200.
10021k
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Re: Recommendation of laptops

Post by 10021k »

Thank you, that really helps. So you are just talking about normal pentium and not the MMX variant? That's still good for me. I think i have an understanding about what it needs to run, I do know the only way to know for sure exactly is too be able to test it like you said lol . Thank you.
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unreal9010
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Re: Recommendation of laptops

Post by unreal9010 »

As far as emulation speed is concerned, I don't recall any notable differences between MMX and the ordinary Pentium models.
keenerb
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Re: Recommendation of laptops

Post by keenerb »

Using American McGee's Alice, my HP Envy Ryzen 5600h laptop maintains 100% with Pentium MMX 233 and Mobile Pentium MMX 300.
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Arjen42
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Re: Recommendation of laptops

Post by Arjen42 »

I recall from the magazines of the day, the Pentium MMX had more 1st level cache (32kB) than the original Pentium (16kB) and other improvements, apart from the new MMX instructions, making it faster. It was said that a Pentium MMX 166 was roughly as fast as an original Pentium 200.

I did some quick and dirty benchmarking (Norton SI and Linux BogoMips) and did not see the expected difference.

I have looked at codegen_timing_pentium.c. Each instruction appears to have its own execution time calibrated to the CPU clock speed. It does some things differently if the emulated CPU supports MMX instructions, but it didn't seem to apply to normal instructions. Still Sarah has done a impressive job researching timings for different CPU families at the instruction level. I don't think it's possible to predict instruction timings for different internal cache sizes. Instructions execute almost equally fast, but you can execute more instructions in the same time when more cache is available.

An emulated CPU with MMX might run games that support MMX better than an emulated CPU without MMX, but only if MMX in both the emulated CPU and the game had been implemented in a good way.
tk421
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Re: Recommendation of laptops

Post by tk421 »

The I5 10300h should be ok for Pentium MMX emulation. I am fond of the Pentium MMX emulation that comes with PCem, so I recommend it without question. You will still get good performance for the games you mentioned if you use the P166 MMX. You should get good performance for the older video cards that those games would use.

With an all-core speed of 4.2 Ghz, you may be able to get PII 233 emulation working at 100% performance. You should give it a try with the Voodoo 2 or Voodoo 3. It may even be possible for you to get good performance with the PII 300. I am not sure if you need a 6 core laptop for that, but given the all-core speed of 4.2 Ghz and top speed of 4.5 Ghz, your new laptop should be a good fit even with the lower end PII emulated CPUs.

I am using a Lenovo gaming laptop with a i7 9750h CPU. I can run the Pentium MMX at 100% most of the time, regardless of the speed of the emulated CPU. I have good performance most of the time using the emulated PII 233. I can reach PII 300 without noticeable sound stuttering. The PII 350 works ok depending on which game I use. I can even run games like Jedi Knight and Episode I Racer on PII 450 in-game using the V3 without much sound stuttering. The game changes when viewing in-game video cutscenes or other non-Voodoo specific tasks, in which case I have to use a much slower CPU speed.

Hopefully you find the right laptop.

For me, the big question in 2022 remains whether a laptop is being sold that can run PCem with the PII 450 at 100% performance.
10021k
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Re: Recommendation of laptops

Post by 10021k »

tk421 wrote: Wed 25 May, 2022 5:27 pm The I5 10300h should be ok for Pentium MMX emulation. I am fond of the Pentium MMX emulation that comes with PCem, so I recommend it without question. You will still get good performance for the games you mentioned if you use the P166 MMX. You should get good performance for the older video cards that those games would use.

With an all-core speed of 4.2 Ghz, you may be able to get PII 233 emulation working at 100% performance. You should give it a try with the Voodoo 2 or Voodoo 3. It may even be possible for you to get good performance with the PII 300. I am not sure if you need a 6 core laptop for that, but given the all-core speed of 4.2 Ghz and top speed of 4.5 Ghz, your new laptop should be a good fit even with the lower end PII emulated CPUs.

I am using a Lenovo gaming laptop with a i7 9750h CPU. I can run the Pentium MMX at 100% most of the time, regardless of the speed of the emulated CPU. I have good performance most of the time using the emulated PII 233. I can reach PII 300 without noticeable sound stuttering. The PII 350 works ok depending on which game I use. I can even run games like Jedi Knight and Episode I Racer on PII 450 in-game using the V3 without much sound stuttering. The game changes when viewing in-game video cutscenes or other non-Voodoo specific tasks, in which case I have to use a much slower CPU speed.

Hopefully you find the right laptop.

For me, the big question in 2022 remains whether a laptop is being sold that can run PCem with the PII 450 at 100% performance.
Sorry it's been probably over a week. Thank you that does help me. I ended up getting the hp pavilion with i5 10300h with the gtx 1650. It was on sale. Because i was hoping that it would run good. So were you saying you think voodoo graphics need six cores at even lower clock frequency for the CPU? Thank you so for your help
tk421
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Re: Recommendation of laptops

Post by tk421 »

I think the CPU for your new laptop will do fine for most PCem tasks. I am sure you will enjoy the Voodoo 3 3000, which runs very well on my laptop thanks to PCem.

I don't know if having 6 cores is better than 4, but I do know that having an all core turbo speed of 4.2 Ghz and top turbo speed of 4.5 Ghz will serve you well for almost all of your PCem tasks. The speed of the CPU is the most important factor for running PCem, and running it well.

Have fun with PCem, one of the best programs out there today.

tk421
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